How Camillo Doregos & Mark Mac are Building a Sustainable Future for African Talent Through DC Talent Agency

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Talent agencies play a crucial role in various industries, serving as intermediaries between talent and talent buyers, employers or contractors. It is often more ideal for skilled people to focus on honing their crafts, than spending time trying to be on top of every single detail of the business side of things.

And particularly as African music is on the up right now, many artists require proper representation that keeps their business clean so that the music can continue to grow from an enabling environment, which will in turn equip African music with the structures it needs to be exported in an auspicious manner.

That’s where DC Talent Agency comes in; as an agency in the heart of African music’s international movement, it provides talent development, promotion, and management services to its clients in the music and entertainment industries. They work with storytellers, trendsetters, icons, and thought leaders who shape pop culture. With a goal of creating bespoke infrastructure, they employ distinct strategies that have helped Africa’s big stars grow bigger.

Founders Camillo Doregos and Mark Mac met by a chance encounter on the road at a festival in Belgium in 2019, and instantly clicked over a conversation about the sustainable growth of African music on the continent, which made them aware of their shared values, as well as their unique positions at the nexus of music movements in Western and Southern Africa.

They joined forces to form DC talent agency, which has since then, grown the careers of some of Afrobeats’ and Amapiano’s biggest stars like Pheelz, Uncle Waffles, etc. Breaking out new stars like, TxC, and through the agency, they have been able to build sustainable touring structures for artists in their roster as well as establish best practices with promoters and talent buyers across the continent.

I caught up with Doregos and Mark to discuss the vision of DC Talent Agency, how they met and continue to make things work, watershed moments in Pheelz’s and Uncle Waffles’ growth, as well as building sustainable structures for African talents on the continent as they export globally.

Why did you guys feel the need to start this agency when you did? And what was the major push or motivation at that time?

Doregos: One of the major reasons we decided to start this agency was that we noticed that in Africa, or with a lot of African talents, there was a lack of agency work in terms of talent, booking live shows, and representation.

And even actually creating a structure for them to tour, for them to even do live shows. And also, there was also distrust between the talent buyers, the promoters, and the talents themselves. Because most of the time, you find out that people, back then would be like “oh we paid this artist and this artist didn’t turn up,” or they pay a third party and the third party didn’t pay the artist so the artist didn’t turn up.

So there was a lot of distrust and that was actually killing the culture in African music, and in traveling globally. So we saw that there was a loophole there and we decided to create a solution to solve that problem. So that’s one of the major reasons why we started DC, to be able to solve these problems.

And so far we’ve done a very good job.

Camillo Doregos

Mark: It’s about being able to conduct business in a professional way because before, I don’t think, before DC Talent, I don’t know of any agency that’s able to do the kind of bookings that we’re doing with the kind of artists that we are doing for.

To create the space so that we could create the platform for artists to actually tour Africa first and then obviously outside. I think it’s also important to understand that we have set up the tour circuit in Africa. So we have partners in each of these countries.

We’re able to say, listen, this is my artist. They’re able to book them and then we can create, for example, an East African tour and a West African tour. So I think that’s also very important to mention.

For many years, there’s been this phenomenon where everyone is doing a world tour, but it’s Europe, North America, basically. What are things that could be done to produce better shows for African stars, and in what ways can more African stops be inserted into the world tour plans of global stars.

Doregos: Africa has the capacity to basically produce quality shows, now, the most important thing about Africa is finding the right balance, and understanding that it’s a business, not a hustle.

You have to find the right promoter that understands the business, and understands that I’m investing X amount to basically make profit as well. And not to run out of business. One of our key things that we do is, we don’t work just for the artist, basically putting our talents into venues, shows, concerts.

We also look after the promoters as well, to be able to find a fine balance to be able to keep them in business. To keep doing more and more quality shows over and over again. So sometimes with touring in Africa, one of the challenges is basically the artists not understanding their will to sacrifice on their fees, in order to create the proper circuits.

Because you go to Europe, you go to the US, you go to places like that, they pay you peanuts, or basically you have a split sheet, you have a performance offer sheet, you know how much this venue is going to sell, most of the time you walk home with negative. But that’s you taking the time to invest in yourself. But when it comes to Africa, most of the time they look at it as a cash cow, basically, without wanting to invest.

There are a good lot of promoters and partners that we have in East Africa, Southern Africa and West Africa, that we’ve done loads of concerts with and helped talents to build. So one of the main focuses right now for us is, or for African talents, is to be able to collaborate. The same way you would go to a Live Nation or whatever promoter outside and do a performance offer sheet, it’s the same thing you can do.

And now that you have a lot of systems in place, right, there are Fintech companies like Paystack, Flutterwave, all these other guys that payment solutions can be easily tracked through, everything can be digitalized everything can go online, there are ticketing platforms that sell tickets.

There’s Bushfire Festival in Swaziland, that’s a big festival where you even pay for your food and drinks with your wristbands, they’ve taken that technology into Uganda as well and other countries. You have Ticket Sasa in Kenya.

So there are loads of platforms like Ticketmaster that people have created solutions for, that you can actually now track where your money is with ease.

Then now pairing up with the right promoter at the right fee for yourself as well investing knowing that in the long run you’re gonna actually have a proper touring circuit and then make more money in the long run.

Mark: I still think that we’re not where we should be because obviously we can do small and medium venues but we still struggle slightly with larger venues. So I think it’s still a challenge for us to be able to get the right large-sized venues. But I think it’s important to understand that the trust element between us and the promoters is vital. Because if you think about it, we actually work for both sides, we work for the artist and the promoter. Like Doregos said, we have to understand what the promoter’s trying to do.

In some of the countries we’ve worked with developers, I’ll give you an example, in Tanzania, we’ve taken a venue called Elements, where you would see that most of the South African, African acts have been… even during COVID when nothing was happening in South Africa. We were able to still tour and people were still being able to feed their families.

During COVID, even though South Africa was shut down, we were able to take people outside. But what we’ve done with our specific venues also helped them with saying, “hey listen guys, if you want to do this properly, this is what you have to do. This is the kind of sound that we need.” So we help them with the sound. “This is the sort of promo you need to do.”

“This is the the flavor, you know, the feel of the event. This is how you should make it.” “So if you want to make it a South African night, this is what the elements should add.”

So I think we worked with them for a few months, maybe three or four months, and now they understand what must happen. It’s almost like we have a certain standard within which we work. So for example, if you’re booking our artists, you know you have to book the right flights. You can’t book them from South Africa to Ethiopia then back to Tanzania. You know the flight has to be right.

Mark Mac

You know that the transportation has to be a decent SUV so you can’t just say you’re gonna send an Uber. You know that the accommodation has to be five stars as proper. We’ve created those standards in each country so now it’s easy for us we don’t have to ask all these questions you know, like if we booking, we already know okay this is what’s gonna happen here. The sound is gonna be amazing.

We know that the the rider for the sound is correct. We know that they’re gonna have the drinks rider, for example. We know that the hotels are gonna be taken care of. We know that the transportation is the transportation we want. So that’s also very important.

I mean, I think that it’s a trust element as well. Like when you know you’re booking with us, so even the artist knows if we are booking them in a certain place, this is the sort of treatment that they’re gonna get. It’s not gonna be, you know, like halfway. It’s always gonna be the full way. So yeah, I think that’s also very important to understand that, you know, so we are now able to say, listen guys, this is the show, this is what we’re doing, and once you do the first show with us, you understand how we work as well. And then you’ll always want us to book the show for you.

Doregos: And just to add to that, to give an experiment in terms of when I was talking about how we work. In terms of right pricing. In December 2021, we did an NSG show in Nigeria, at the Ultima Studio, NSG wanted to come to Nigeria to do a show and they came to us and we said, we can help you produce the show and partner with you on the show.

But we were able to price the show at the right price point that was able to allow them to build and pull out a thousand people to their venue, and sold out the show.

And this is just based of them understanding that yes they’re the UK and they’re hot right, and they take maybe X amount, but coming to a new market right they are willing to invest their time and their money in this, and basically we did that and got a successful show.

So it’s those kinds like things we try to do across the continent as well, whereby we’re able to tell acts that “Trust us, we will deliver you a quality show, you get to meet your audience, grow your brand and at the end of the day we get to do good business.

I found that Mark, you were a former head of international live division at UMG and also, Doregos you were the manager for Mr. Eazi. How did you two meet? How did you two sync? And how do your expertises continue to sync on a day to day and the bigger picture as well?

Mark: Initially, the business that I was in, was we were bringing talents or artists into Africa, if you think about the South African landscape, the culture events, we did Migos, French Montana, Chris Brown, Lil Yatchy, Gunna, Meek Mill, all the urban guys that came to South Africa, that was our main focus and business.

I met Doregos because I had a booking with Mr. Eazi in Dubai, in 2019 if I’m not mistaken, we did the Mr. Eazi show, and then I had a show in Belgium called Oh My! Fest, which he was also booked on, and then they’d also come to Belgium for that, and then we spent some time together because we drove from Brussels to Amsterdam for the next show, which was in Amsterdam I think, but Doregos had Mr Eazi, King Promise and a few others on the line up as well for that show. So that’s when we kind of met and we were like, okay, there’s a lot of synergy. So Doregos is basically in West Africa, what I am in the South of Africa.

He’s linked with all of the artists, he has these personal relationships, basically with anyone, you know? He was there from the start, like, he has an issue, he can pick up the phone and literally call and say, yo, can you help us with this? This is the issue, you know?

Same for me, I have this relationship with every single artist, a personal relationship, I can say, in South Africa with any artist, because we’re always booking them on these that we’re doing.

The synergy was just there bro, it just makes sense now during the time, to create a new business model to take people from Africa into Africa you know and literally Doregos is me, not just like in terms of the connections and the contacts and being able to walk into these rooms, but literally like personality wise.

And I think the most important thing is that we do what we do because we love it and not for the money. We never ever do anything for money. Doregos and I would sit and talk about things, we’ll have offers for some people, we’ll literally turn down a show with more money if it doesn’t make sense for the artist. We’re not trying to just make a quick buck.

We’re making sure that the artist is strategically placed in the right way so that we have more opportunities in the future as well. We literally turned down like a 80,000 pound show or 50,000 pound show. Imagine we get less money just because we want them to make sure that the artist is positioned in the right way.

So bro, it’s very, very seldom that you will find the booking agents or promoters who will always think of the artist first, you know, and not just doing it for money. I think the fact that we love what we’re doing is the most important thing, so everything else is just a byproduct.

We feel like, do your best and love what you’re doing and then the money will come. That’s just a byproduct of you loving what you’re doing. I think we have the same philosophy in life. And that’s the synergy was just there. It was just like a marriage of two people that it was always meant to be. It’s just that we took, you know, they say we took a long time to find each other, but that’s literally what it is.

Pheelz’s “Finesse” was a special moment for Afrobeats, And I think what was very interesting about that was how that moment was able to live longer than the moment. How were you guys able to engineer that moment into more sustainably becoming a viable long-term product and not just flaring up and burning out very quickly?

Doregos: In terms of “Finesse,” firstly credit to Pheelz because he’s been an artist from forever but never just came out to showcase his talent fully. He’s been doing it subtly with writing for artists, with producing, doing backing vocals, there’s a lot of songs that top charts that if you listen properly you’ll probably hear Pheelz’s backing vocals.

When the moment happened, I think for us it was already time. Even before then in 2020, Pheelz dropped a project called “Hear Me Out.” And a couple of people didn’t believe in him, they were like, just stick to production, you’re not an artist.

And when “Finesse” popped up, it was like a shock to them, it was in their faces, and then followed by “Electricity,” then followed by “Pheelz Good,” then followed by “Stand By You” and it’s been going on back to back because this is this new journey and the new phase of his career and us as well, like taking in this, right?

Because you get to the point in time, where I feel like sometimes you just have to do like what makes you happy and have new challenges in life or else you’ll be there. You’ll be there just staying still on the same thing for a long time. Taking on this new challenge, trying to do this on a different scale, actually bringing someone’s dream to life is one of our passions. And that’s what helps keep the sustainability and the drive of making things happen.

Keeping dreams alive is what keeps us going every single day and that’s what keeps us making us making music. The way we see music is like a spirit whereby you just connect and just put out that quality material that has always been embedded in you and just putting it out there for the world to hear and let the world decide how they use your music whether to heal, whether for fun, whether for laughter, whether to mourn.

Something Mark said earlier about how when you guys were connecting and you thought of this vision of taking African artists into Africa. Why was that the goal from the jump?

Mark: This is also very important to also mention, in terms of culture, I think this is the first time, because I’m South African based in South Africa and Doregos is Nigerian. I don’t think there’s ever been a connection of South and West like this in terms of in the music space.

You know, people have always tried to do it if you think about it. Burna Boy and A.K.A. lots of them that tried to do something in the music space, trying to connect the different parts cause it’s one Africa but we’re always segragated. They were able to see each other as Africans.

For me, it’s important that we understand that we are all Africans, and Africa is for Africans. Instead of us trying to start doing things in the UK where people don’t really understand what we’re trying to do, or in the US, where they don’t really understand, you know, what’s the difference between Afrobeats or Amapiano, we decided as a strategy to first touch Africa.

Once we touch Africa, we understand the diaspora… so exactly what has happened, I’ll give you an example which will speak to your point. Let’s take Uncle Waffles.

We first broke her in Africa, I did the first six shows in Africa, personally myself, I went to every one of her shows and we were able to connect the dots in each of these places, and the diaspora was looking at this and be like, yo, this is amazing. What is this Amapiano thing. And then they go back to the UK. And then they start asking for this in the UK.

The demand starts getting greater, then there’s some guys in the diaspora that live in the US that go back to the US and say like, “yo, tell your friends, yo, have you heard about this? You know, you should bring this to America. You should bring the sound here.” And that’s literally what’s been happening.

We were able to, I want to say maybe not so much for Afrobeats but for Amapiano, even though you know Doregos is West African, for Amapiano bro what we’ve done, DC talent, we’ve literally exploded this thing called Amapiano into the world.

Because we’ve taken people to Africa and we’ve made people notice, well, what is this? We love the sound. Let’s take it back home. So we created demand in the UK. We created demand in the US. In fact, anywhere in the world. If you think about in December in Ghana, people are coming to visit Ghana and they go back to their homes. And be like ‘yo this sound was crazy. We should bring it here.’

So we even helped people to start up their own companies, you know, in the UK, to start doing this kind of thing. They would never give us credit for it, but we’ve been able to do that, and that was the reason why. It was just so that we were able to take the talent, take the music… because it’s all about the music bro, take it into Africa and explode it into the world from Africa.

And right now, I’ve said for the last 12 months, there’s no place that’s buzzing more than Africa. Look at everything that’s happening, everybody’s looking here, you know, everybody’s trying to look here and see what’s the trends, what’s the latest sound. If you think about the music, this song, “Tshwala Bam,” when you think about that song where it has billions of TikToks, billions. Like every single person in the US knows the song and knows the trend.

Like that’s just crazy for me as a South African, as someone that’s trying to export the music. Look at Tyla for example. You know what I mean? So it’s all about the sound. It’s us being able to go to Africa but eventually expanding the sound into the world. So that was why it was important for us or for me and Doregos to be able to say okay this is what we have to do.

Read More: Tyla Interview: “I make dance music. When it comes to Amapiano, you have to dance”

I think that’s a very key, it’s a great way to look at it and to approach it I believe because I think it’s always better to build that value from your home base as opposed to always trying to look outside for validation.

Mark: People always think the grass is greener on the other side, you know. So they always want to go and try to do things outside. But literally, bro, Africa is where it’s at. Like literally, Africa is where it’s at.

Doregos: I always say something that the definition of going global to me right now is you’ve been able to play to your audience back in Africa and your audience in diaspora, which is over a billion globally. And so for you to be able to play to them, for them to hear your music, that is global.

So if we are able to keep delivering quality music and quality talent to our people back home and in diaspora, then I think then we’ve made a very big landmark. We’ve made a very big achievement.

Is there a particular quality, that you see that makes you believe, this is star power or potential from someone that can do a good job at representing the scenes globally?

Mark: I think it’s a combination, but I would say it’s that kind of star power. And I’ve never ever worked with any artist that I don’t believe in. For me it’s about also how much the artist actually wants themselves.

I remember all the things that Waffles is talking about or has now, even three years ago when she started. It’s what she wanted. So she also had a vision for herself. You know, sometimes you get these kind of artists that will just go wherever the wind blows. But for me it’s important that the artists themselves understand their journey and what needs to happen.

So I think it’s a combination of talent, star power, also luck, to be honest. Because you need everything to work together, you know? We help you with putting you in the right spaces, with music and music strategy, and then the rest is up to you, and also, obviously, you know, luck doesn’t not help.

That’s it for myself. Every single artist that we work with has star power. We would have 10 artists coming to us saying, yo, can you take over our bookings, please? And I’ll be like, no. We have a boutique agency, and we want to work closely with the number of people that we already have. And I’ve turned down quite a few, actually. And Doregos the same.

It’s almost a kind of a feeling, you know? You need to feel something, so I can’t tangibly define it more than just that it’s a feeling that you get. I remember when Doregos played me “Finesse,” the first time I was like, bro, this one is going to do things. No, this one is the one. Literally, the first time you played it for me.

And then, like I think maybe like a week or two weeks later, Pheelz was performing the song with Davido at the O2 Arena. So you need to understand, like, you have to feel it. I don’t know if it’s something that everybody has, but I have it and Doregos has it, it’s a feeling. That’s what I can attest it to be.

Doregos: As Mark said, like luck. So for example, the moment that actually even helped break “Finesse” beyond everything was the performance at David’s show. I think, two weeks before then, I just made, we didn’t even know we were dropping “Finesse.” I just made Pheelz apply for a UK visa, just to go for a session in the UK. His visa literally came out on Thursday before David’s show on Friday.

And that emphasized luck and also like faith, basically just playing into that. His visa came out on Thursday evening, he picked up the visa, went to W Bar, Friday morning he was on a flight, landed in London by 4 p.m, didn’t even have clothes, Adekunle (Gold) had to give him clothes to wear to style him.

And him going out there to perform with David and the song just came out three days before, and everybody was singing the song, just created that affirmation that this song is a hit, right? And that just helped. So luck also plays a part in everything you do.

Mark: Or some people say the grace of God. So you can call it luck or you can call it blessings. It’s just how you define it.

From your website, I’ve seen that you guys have facilitated some brand partnerships. How do you know something is a good fit in a way for a brand partnership between an artist and a brand?

Mark: I think it’s understanding the business and also understanding the artist. We have this thing called a roadmap. If you sign to our agency, we give you the roadmap, and the roadmap has a whole lot of questions in it that asks these questions about who do you want to work with, like in terms of music, also in terms of partnerships and brand partnerships. Where do you see yourself?

If it’s like a fashion brand, which of these fashion brands do you want to work with? That’s kind of the foot that we would normally look at, but we also understand the industry quite well. We would suggest even to people, like I think Doregos has done these BoohooMan deals very well. I think he’s done like seven products.

But I mean we understand the sort of what the industry needs. Like what the client needs, because we understand our clients intimately too, as well as the others. So we know, okay, this one works here, this one works there.

Doregos: And also, it just boils down to our fundamental principle, right? We just don’t work for the talent, we work for both the talent and both the talent buyer or the partner. So that way we can stay in business longer and it’s a win-win situation for every single one of us.

Yeah, that makes sense. And I feel like there’s a lot of finesse, if I may, that comes over time of years of building that business acumen to just kind of know, what might work and what might not work.

Mark: 100%. I think the fundamental thing is people always say you’re in the music business. No, it’s not the music business. It’s a relationship business. Everything that we do is based on relationships and trust.

I can talk on the Sprite deal with Omah Lay, and the big corporate couldn’t get it done. And then, you know, it was two phone calls. We were able to get Omah Lay on the Sprite deal. You know, he made a packet of money on that deal, for example.

But it’s just being able to also get to the root. You know what I mean? Like, the NBA, for example, was trying to get some of these artists to do these watch parties, and they waited for three weeks to get an answer. We got an answer the same day from three of the four artists that they wanted. So they couldn’t understand like how are you guys able to actually this thing so quick. It’s because of the relationships that’s what it is.

I also saw that you guys are working with creators/influencers. I saw one particularly on your website. Why did you guys choose to venture into that as well?

Doregos: One of the reasons why is because we feel like we just need to diversify our portfolio and give more opportunities to a lot of talents out there. I see them as talent, I don’t see them as creators basically.

I say if you can peel orange, you can peel the orange very well, you’re bookable. And we can book you, we can represent you. There are loads of talents out there in Africa, the same situation is happening, a lot of them can’t find the right partners to work with, right brands to work with, and even do good business or even look after their best interests to a standard quality that is expected worldwide.

To be able to take them on and help them structure their business and actually help them to make enough income to be able to take care of themselves and their family.

It’s a project that Tomiwa on the team is really passionate about and so basically he leads the front on the creator side, so I’ll let him add something to it if he wants to.

Tomiwa: I think the line between being a creator and being an artist, especially right now with TikTok and social media, the line just continues to blur every day. So you find artists that are becoming content creators, content creators that are becoming artists and all that. And because basically what were before creating the creator division is that we were connecting artists with global opportunities.

So it’s like, why can’t we do that for African creators as well? So yeah, connect them with global brands like House of CB, I mean, brands that they typically won’t be able to reach on their own.

What new frontier is you guys’ mind in terms of the agency and after everything that you guys have been able to do up until now, what do you envision that could be a next phase?

Mark: I think in terms of territory, because I think we’ve broken East and West Africa, but North is still, is something, I think I did one show in Morocco, but there’s, you know, there’s the North side, there’s Egypt, there’s Tunisia, there’s Morocco, these places that we’re still trying to get into.

For me, the new frontier would be the north as well as the east of the world. So I’m talking about places like Tokyo, Japan, China, just to be able to break into those kind of markets.

We’ve had a very rich conversation and if there’s anything that might be left wanting, I’d like to open the floor for you guys to have the opportunity to say any other thing you would like to say

Doregos: I think the only thing is just making people understand our talents and our standard. You have to believe in your own because at the end of the day, one thing we’re trying to be very careful about or we’re noticing about is that yes, with African music, Afrobeats, Amapiano, everything, actually African music basically, is growing tremendously and it’s creating a lot of opportunities,

But we also have to be careful and kind of like kind of gatekeep it a bit in terms of how we work and partner with people across the world, because if we’re not careful what has happened to other genres from Caribbean music to Latin music can actually happened to us again, and this has been happening in terms of like now, the A-list are very big and we kind of don’t have any B-list acts in the middle and the rest of the acts that we have are at the bottom.

Now a lot of a lot of promoters, whether it be small promoters that always push the culture cannot even afford to book an act anymore, because of pricing, and of politics in the agency game in the global space,

You might be with an agency that doesn’t want to work with an African promoter that does good quality business, but will rather give it to someone else that is his friend because it feels like they can make it buck.

There’s trickery and politics that goes on in this and that way that would also kind of like start diminishing the value that African music has and we’re already seeing that people are less booking artists and now just booking DJs, and now you have an influx of DJs, now you can go to an R&B party, you can go to an Afrobeats party, Afrobeats and brunch, and it’s going on, so very soon, it’ll be like, what’s the point of actually booking an artist anymore?

Right, and so that connection between the fans, to be able to see talent, to see the acts in real time, will then diminish, and before you know it, we’re back to, oh, where’s Afrobeats today? And we just hope that in the next couple of years we don’t get to that stage we should be able to keep it for a much longer time and actually let it stay

Because I feel like African music is the one genre that is all about love, energy and vibes and inshallah, party, it’s all about enjoyment, feel good music, that’s what that’s what African music is.

Mark: From my side, just to let people know that DC Talent agency, we’re not just here for the money, we actually care about what we’re doing. Fundamentally, we care about our artists and we care about the music getting out there. That’s really my two cents.

Doregos: And the last thing that came to mind is that in terms of like traveling in Africa, people experience difficulty traveling across Africa, transportation, visa… all those things are things that we’ve been able to navigate, even with our talents then going to the US, Europe, Africa, we actually do beyond bookings, we are actually involved in making sure we help them, put them with immigration lawyers, not visa agents that can actually give them the best advice.

To get them the right document and the right visa to play in the right territories. Connect them with tax advisors to help them. We go beyond just booking and actually care about the full ecosystem that surrounds the talent.

Nasir Ahmed Achile

Philosophy nut. I recommend Albert Camus, Eckhart Tolle and bell hooks to everyone I know.

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